The Last Salute Virtual Exhibit – Plain-text

Gertie: So D-Day came and the patients came in, one ambulance after another and we fixed, we met them, we, we did a first aid on them. We did their dressings. If some of them were pretty bad, if they were very bad, like they couldn't be moved, they stayed. I, you know, they were just little young boys, you know, crying. It was sad. It was very sad.
Alannah: And could you help all of them? Was there something to be done for each of them?
Gertie: There was something to be done for each of them. There was, even if it was just talking to them.
Alannah: Did you sometimes meet Canadian soldiers?
Gertie: These were all Canadian soldiers.
Alannah: Oh, they were all Canadians?
Gertie: Yes, they were all Canadians. They were our friends, our brothers.
Alannah: It must have meant the world to them to be with Canadian nurses and doctors.
Gertie: Oh, yes.
Alannah: To be able to say, I'm from Campbellford, yeah, I'm from Kingston. And you knew where they were from.
Gertie: Yeah, yeah. And they were all so young, you know, it was sad. It was very sad.
Alannah: Well, how do you cope with that? How did you process that?
Gertie: Well, you never, I don't know. I don't know how we coped. We worked 24 hours a day practically, you know, because they just kept coming and coming after D-Day one, one convoy after another.
Alannah: Did you talk among yourselves? You and your best friend?
Gertie: Oh yes, we did. And one convoy came in and it was a boy from Campbellford.
Alannah: Did you recognize him?
Gertie: I've recognized him as, yes, exactly. I recognized him and I think he had serious leg wounds and, and that, so they moved him on. He wasn't there that long. But it was a shock to see somebody you knew.
Alannah: Really? It brings it home.
Gertie: Yes.
Alannah: It makes it all very real. And in those days, they really didn't talk about post-traumatic shock.
Gertie: Oh, heavens no. You carried on. You worked until you dropped, you know. But we were young, we had stamina, and it was just the way things were.

Clarence: I was in the Infantry.
Alannah: You were in the infantry.
Clarence: That's right.
Alannah: What did you do?
Clarence: Everything that was supposed to be done, I guess. We were told to do this and do that and do this and do that, you know? Hmmm.
Alannah: A lot of discipline.
Clarence: Yeah. Discipline. Yeah. Nothing you could do about it.
Alannah: You had to take the orders.
Clarence: That's right. Take the orders.
Alannah: How did you manage that?
Clarence: Pretty good, I guess. Yeah, I would say so. Pretty, pretty good. I loved it.
Alannah: You did?
Clarence: Yes.
Alannah: Why?
Clarence: I don't know, because there a bunch, bunch of the boys together, you know? It was, it was great. We were all in the same boat trying to do the best out of it, you know?
Alannah: Did you have a couple of really close friends?
Clarence: Oh my god, I quite a few of those.
Alannah: Did you?
Clarence: Oh yeah. We were all together. One was not better than the other. We were all, we were all equal and we looked after one another very, very well. It was a little rough at times, but it was a real life, you know. We took it, we took it pretty good. Matter of fact. Very good.
Alannah: But you had close calls
Clarence: Couple of times? Yeah.
Alannah: Yeah. What does that mean? What was happening when it was a close call?
Clarence: Of course you got to, to the enemy and you know, guns going on to beat hell. The big guns. The small guns.
Alannah: So you faced enemy fire a lot?
Clarence: Enough.
Alannah: Enough?
Clarence: Mm-hmm.
Alannah: And you must have lost friends, Clarence.
Clarence: Oh yes. Oh, I did. A lot of them.
Alannah: How do you cope with that as a young man out in the field?
Clarence: I dunno how you would say it. Oh, you lost your best friends. It was awful. In your mind you are saying am I next? You know, we all, we all thought of it the same way. You know, he's gone today. Maybe tomorrow we'll be gone. It was not pretty.
Alannah: Would you have talked to your friends about that when you were there?
Clarence: No, I don't think so. No.
Alannah: And you saw action in Italy?
Clarence: Mm-hmm.
Alannah: France?
Clarence: Mm-hmm.
Alannah: Germany?
Clarence: Mm-hmm.
Alannah: Holland?
Clarence: Mm-hmm.
Alannah: Belgium?
Clarence: Mm-hmm.
Alannah: And North Africa?
Clarence: Mm-hmm.
Clarence: That's right. Mm-hmm. How do you know that?
Alannah: How do you survive that?
Clarence: Take taking orders. Yours were there and then you had to take them.
Alannah: Did you always like your commanding officer?
Clarence: I guess so, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Alannah: Is there one place? What place really stays with you?
Clarence: Um, you know, quite a few.
Alannah: What was North Africa like?
Clarence: Sad, terrible. North Africa, France, Italy, Germany, Holland, and Belgium. We says never, never again. But when the time is there and you gotta go in, you know, it's not much you can do,
Alannah: But how do you do that time and time again?
Clarence: It was hard at first. You know, once you are in it, you kind of forget all about it, I guess. You just keep going on.
Alannah: And did you, did you carry anything with you? Some of the veterans have told me they had something always in their pocket. Did you have any, anything from home that you carried with you?
Clarence: Yeah, there was something. I always had it with me. I think it was a picture. Picture of my dad. Yeah.

George: War didn’t make you unhappy. You're with a lot of other people and, and they provide you with a lot of memories and you never forget them. That's what I think about them. I know. I was never afraid of, of, death. No, you walked up to it. You went through it and you came back, if you were lucky. Rarely do you remember the hard times that you left behind. You just went by them and you carried them on your shoulder. They were your memory and you'll never ever forget them. I cry when I think of some of them. Some of them will come back and some won't. The tears go, oh boy. The tears go down when I think about it. But yes, remembering the past. Never forget them. Thank you for listening to me because we don't have that opportunity. Yeah. Makes me cry a little bit. Just think about the crazy world, and all these sad things to go through with them.

Stan: I love Mosquitoes.
Alannah: Describe what made that airplane so special. Stan: It had two engines, and they were good engines. They were same ones on the Spitfires, and they were mighty, mighty good. They could take on all the Messerschmitts and what you name it. It's, uh, great to have, uh, an aircraft like that on your side.
Alannah: Stan. They're made, they were made of wood, the Mosquitoes.
Stan: I know. So, because one time and the aircraft come in, we were down in England and I don't know, I think the pilot was blind because he, he come in, but he missed the, um, he missed the, the tarmac, the runway. And he skid across the grass and missed the, uh, control tower. But he hit a machine and all we had was a pile of wood. Another armourer and myself, we had to go in and get the, the 20 millimetre, uh, guns out of it. They were the big ones, Suizas, Oerlikons, and we got 'em out, but amongst all the splendour of wood. But you know, about that time, uh, the bombers started to go over and I can look up there and hear the war of thousands of machines, Lancasters, Halifaxes and what you name, name it. But you know what they did to me? They, uh, in the summer of 43, I boarded another ship and I went through the, the Mediterranean. I saw smoke. It was, uh, two ships, uh, ships on fire. And the men, there was U-boats there. Well, I didn't know through the Suez Canal, Indian Ocean, then India, and down to Ceylon to 413 Squadron. And I'm looking for squadron leader Birchall. He got to be well known. He was the saviour of Ceylon.
Alannah: So when you were that young man witnessing all of this war, how did you cope? How did you cope with the planes overhead, the pressure of doing your job, the travel to unknown places?
Stan: You know, I never really, I never really thought too much about it. I thought, well, I'm over here having a, a good time. When I first went over, well I thought I was having a good time joining the air force. Then when I went overseas and, uh, different squadrons, I felt really good too that I would belong to the, uh, the adventure, the, the war. So, I never ever thought I would, but when I think back now, I was actually more serious than I imagine.

Joe: Everybody was saying the same sort of the same thing. We're all living in the same boat, so to speak. And uh, we had to accept the fact there was a war on. And uh, and we just had to face the fact that we don't let it worry you too much. Although we were afraid in the submarine infested waters, but we still were able to keep our level headedness about us and keep us our wellbeing about us because we had a job to do. Yeah. You resigned to the fact that you're in there in a war and you had a job to do. And, uh, that's, I think that sort of kept you in a fair, fairly good state and, and, uh, of course you weren't, uh, when you finished your, your sessions, you know, where if you were out to sea for a period of time, you'd come back in for, uh, vacations.
Alannah: And what would you do when you had some leave?
Joe: Oh, I visited during most of it. People went home, hadn't seen their folks.
Alannah: Were you allowed to talk about your work?
Joe: Well, I think loose lips sinks ships.
Alannah: Right.
Joe: It was a useful expression, used frequently.
Alannah: What about on board the boat? Did you guys have any way to let off steam? Would you play cards or what would you do?
Joe: Um, we had, uh, we had a PA system. We played records. Matter of fact, I remember I wrote to Bing Cosby, to tell him how much we enjoyed his music. And Bing answered.
Alannah: No.
Joe: With a record.
Alannah: Did he?
Joe: Yeah, he signed it. Bing. B-I-N-G.

Alannah: Tell me how you travelled overseas. What ship were you on and what was the story of that travel?
Ken: Well, uh, I went over on the, uh, Queen Mary and, uh, Churchill was on that ship. We didn't know it, of course. And, uh, it stopped at Quebec. Uh, so that, uh, president Franklin Roosevelt could come aboard and Churchill could talk to him and explain to him about the plan for the invasion of Normandy.
Alannah: Oh my goodness.
Ken: And, uh, when that was over, then we went on.
Alannah: When did you find out that that had taken place on your ship?
Ken: Well, I, I knew that afterwards. That was before we got on the ship.
Alannah: That ship had a, a nickname. Do you remember what it was? What they called the Queen Mary? I think she was called The Grey Ghost.
Ken: Grey Ghost. No, I never heard that. No.
Alannah: I think she used to be able to go at, at a good speed.
Alannah: Well, that was it, when we got aboard, it was at a good speed and because nobody saw us, and it was all camouflaged too.

Harry: It totally surprised me that I could paint what I did. They were totally surprised that I could do that.
Alannah: Where do you think that came from?
Harry: I don't know. Nobody in my family did anything like that. I would just paint. Some of the portraits I did were photographic.
Alannah: And the landscapes, always of England?
Harry: They were landscapes and portraits. I was very proud of the ones I sold cause I sold them for hundreds of dollars and uh, they were very good paintings.
Alannah: I wonder if you would've done that had you not been sent off to war and been alone in England. It gave you the time and space.
Harry: Yeah. I never thought I would do it. I painted realistic portraits who were like photographs.
Alannah: And where would you find your portrait people? Who did you paint?
Harry: They came to the shows and I never saw them again, but I was very proud of what I did. They were very good paintings, accurate. It, it absolutely amazes me what I could do out of a clear blue sky.

Alannah: You were with the Ghost Squadron. Ken: A long time ago.
Alannah: Why was it called that?
Ken: Well, it was called the Ghost Squadron because they, they, uh, when when we got to the, to the, uh, to the station, to Squadron Station, they, they had, they, all the people had had, had died pretty well. So there were just ghosts there. So that, that's all that was left was there were ghosts of all the people that had, had gone.
Alannah: Ah, I thought part of it was because you flew at nighttime so often so that you were invisible, like ghosts. Was that not true? Was that part of it, too?
Ken: Yeah.
Alannah: How old were you when you first started with the bombers? 20? 21?
Ken: Around there?
Alannah: Yeah. You had at least 40 missions over Germany.
Ken: Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, they weren't all over Germany. There was a lot of them in France because, uh, the, uh, the Resistance were involved.
Alannah: And then what was that like, Ken? What was it like to do this?
Ken: Well, all, all the people that were there, they were involved, were doing the same thing. It was all right. It was, it wasn't scary.
Alannah: No.
Ken: It wasn't scary, you know.
Alannah: Because you were with each other?
Ken: Yeah.
Alannah: What gets a young man through that though? I know you say you weren't scared and that's good, but what got you through it those years? Three years I think you were doing it?
Ken: Uh, I never thought about it. I never, never thought of it. Well, what was involved?
Alannah: What would you young men do to, to let off some steam, to give some balance to your life? Did you, did you have time away from it?
Ken: Yeah.
Alannah: And what would you do?
Ken: I had family over there. I went to see them quite a bit.

Jim: They were unhappy. They were unhappy because I came from a very closely knit family. And, uh, the fact that that was maybe an adventure to me, to them, uh, it, it was a bit of a shock.
Alannah: And where were you in the birth order? You say you came from a big family?
Jim: Yeah. I had, uh, siblings. I was, uh, one boy and there was, uh, two older boys and, and a sister.
Alannah: And were you the oldest?
Jim: I was the youngest.
Alannah: Oh, so the baby was going off to war?
Jim: Yeah. This was a big shock to my mother, but, but to me it, it, it was just, uh, an adventure.
Alannah: And do you remember what she said to you or your dad as you went off to war?
Jim: Yea!
Alannah: Because they had a better idea what you were getting into.
Jim: Yeah, they had the realization. She, she, she, she just quite frankly said she wasn't happy with me doing it, you know? But once she, she knew that I, I I had committed, she was supportive in, in, in, in, in every way.
Alannah: And now you ended up being a navigator for the air force?
Jim: Yes.
Alannah: Why the Air Force? Why did you choose that rather than the navy or the army?
Jim: Because, it's, uh, uh, it, it did seem to have more adventure than the army. And also I, I, I had visions of, of the army in, in trench warfare and things like that. And quite frankly, it seemed the, the, the most, uh, easy one to, to, to become compatible with.
Alannah: Kind of a romantic thing surrounded the air force, didn't it?
Jim: That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alannah: And then once you started in the training, what was it like?
Jim: It, it was tough, but, but, but, but it was an adventure and it was something new. And as, as a, a young man there, it, it, it was something that I, I enjoyed.
Alannah: And what were the first, say the first year? Was that just a lot of training? Where were you to get, get your wings?
Jim: I wanted, of course, to be, to be a pilot. I, I, of course went to the recruiting unit and where they did the test and they found out that there was no openings for a pilot. So what, what else would I have to do? And then the lesser of any of the other two evils was a navigator rather than air gunners and things like that.
Alannah: What was that job when you were, when you say you were a navigator, what was your job?
Jim: Well, the job was as a navigator, as you became a member of a, a crew of, of uh, uh, seven people. And, and the navigator's job was, was to, when the target had been designed, the navigator's job was then to plot the, the course, the best course from the beginning to the end.
Alannah: So you needed a lot of math, a lot of logic. What, what did that entail?
Jim: A lot of math, of course, yeah. Things like that. But I was just out of high school, so it, it was something I could handle.
Alannah: But that was tough. That was tough to learn, I'm sure.
Jim: It is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Alannah: And in those days, for the kids listening, the radar was not the same. I mean, it was very, it was almost like doing trigonometry, wasn't it? I mean, it was really hard crunching of numbers.
Jim: Yeah. It, it was right. There was, there was no easy answer. It, it was, there was no computers, uh, at the time and things like that. So it, it was, you had to do the own plotting yourself. So it wasn't easy, but, but of course at that age, you feel you can do anything, you know?
Alannah: Well, I think you were young and smart. I think you had both maybe.
Jim: Young anyway.
Alannah: And what kind of plane were you a navigator for? Or were there a number of types?
Jim: Well, there's a number of planes, two bomber command planes. One was a Lancaster, which you may have heard about, one other, not quite so well-known was the Halifax bombers, and it was the Halifax bombers that, that, that I did my tour of, uh, uh, 22 operations.
Alannah: 22 operations. You fought the Germans from 43 to 45?
Jim: Yeah.
Alannah: So those were your 22 flights that you spoke of?
Jim: Yeah, 22. But there weren't 22 operations. There was 22 practice flights. There was actually five operations.
Alannah: Where did you go? What, what part of Germany would you have been flying over and bombing?
Jim: Well, the, the, the first one, of course was to, uh, Cologne. And, at that time, Cologne was known as Happy Valley. This was just a designation. It was anything but Happy Valley because it was where most of the, the aircraft were being shot down at that time. So we made a joke about it, but it was no joke at all. But when you're young, at that age, you're invincible, of course.
Alannah: And did you have close calls? You're here today, so I know you made it, but did you have some close calls?
Jim: We, we had a couple of, of, of, of close calls, but no actionable contacts to be shot down at all. But that was just the luck of the draw because the calamity was, was, was apparent when, when, when so many planes never made it back.

Harry: I went overseas. I was in England for a while, and then, uh, I went to the continent and, uh, I did what usual army soldiers do, the traditional, I got along with my superiors quite well, and they got along with me. And, uh, we, we just had a, you know, actually an enjoyable time.
Alannah: Did you see battle? Did you come under fire? Did you lose friends?
Harry: Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's, you know, the, uh, the bombs and, and, and, and uh, uh, machinery that they used. And, you know, we, we saw what was going on, but we, we, we just carried on as usual. And then what we had to do as, as an army person, when you're in the army, there's certain regulations and certain procedures, and there's certain things. And even if you wanna do something else, they, they want you to do what they tell you and certain areas and, and you try to follow their instructions and keep everybody happy.
Alannah: When you saw friends be killed, how, what got you through that?
Harry: Well, as in any army, I, I didn't have a lot of friends, but, uh, I see people killed, and that's part of the war. Uh, you know, I mean, uh, you felt badly about it, of course, but that's war. And, uh, you know, you, you don't know whether you're gonna live the next day or not. It’s, it's all the question of what they want you to do too, you see and, uh, sometimes it's treacherous, and sometimes it's not. And, uh, you had to proceed according to certain instructions. It was a, it was a, a game that, uh, we all had to win the war and not fight with each other. There were certain people in the army that were, uh, you know, painful because they, they were painful people, just generally. You didn't start going fighting or with them or anything. But, uh, it, it, it, it worked out quite well for me.

Phil: I went to war as a young guy. I was looking for an adventure. I got it. I got it. It was an adventure. Each day was its own time to learn to live with it and something hard because you went through hell. And then we came out of it and then turned around and looked and I said, I was in that. That's crazy. I was in eight invasions and each one was a life by itself. You landed on an island that you never saw before in your life, and all of a sudden there you are right in the middle of it, cuz you're in the South Pacific. And I look at pictures of that and I can't believe that I went through it. That's the whole thing. I still can remember almost day by day where I was. My children know exactly where I was. But I told them and they used to say, dad, you were there and I’d say yeah. And they said, unbelievable. How could you stand it? You have to, if you want to exist, otherwise your whole life breaks up. Sleep at night? No, because you figure any minute Jeff was gonna walk in on you. I, I couldn't believe he said, you’re going home. Why? You're kidding me. But what we landed in San Francisco, I went home, say, even tonight it affects me.

Orville: I went over in July of 44 and was the radar officer for the squadron until the war ended.
Alannah: And was it always the same squadron?
Orville: Yes. 614.
Alannah: 614 of the Pathfinders.
Orville: Yes.
Alannah: All of you were set to taking so much risk, weren't you in those days? Wasn't that sort of the height of the bombing and the danger?
Orville: Oh, the air crew. Oh, that's the saddest, sad part of it. When I, when I joined the squadron, they started a renewed tack on the oil fields of Ploesti.
Alannah: In Italy?
Orville: No, in Romania. There were two main forces in Italy, British 205 group, and a large group of American aircraft flying B17s and B24s.
Alannah: And what exactly was your job?
Orville: I was a squadron radar officer, reporting to the commanding officer who was a group captain. And I was responsible for all aspects of not only radar, but other high tech devices. I had a number of technicians working for me, about half of whom were Canadians who had gone through the same course. I was, in fact, the manager of the radar, uh.
Alannah: For that squadron?
Orville: Yeah.
Alannah: And you were 22, 23 at the time.
Orville: Yeah.
Alannah: That's a hell of a responsibility.
Orville: Incredible. If the radar didn't work, the airplane didn't fly. If the airplanes didn't fly, the whole group didn't fly. So, uh, when I look back on it, it’s absolutely incredible. But I gained management experiences as well as technical which put me in good standing in my later career.
Alannah: So did you tell that commanding officer where to mark?
Orville: Well, the operation people did that.
Alannah: Okay.
Orville: My job was to make sure that the radar worked.
Alannah: And those, those men could fly and drop their bombs?
Orville: Yes.
Alannah: And come back again?
Orville: Yes.

Tony: I was laying on a, on a grass out in front of our offices and all of a sudden I hear the noise, planes going over planes, planes, one after the other. Hundreds. Hundreds of planes going over, going over. And I knew darn well this is it. This is it. I was in England, laying on the grass and I knew right away then that that was a start. That was the start of something and it really started something, alright.
Alannah: And what kind of planes would those have been?
Tony: All kinds of planes. All kinds.
Alannah: Spitfires?
Tony: Fighter, fighter planes and, and, uh, bombers. Bombers, fighter planes, the whole works. They had hundreds of planes flying around all over the place. Oh, yeah.
Alannah: And did you, at that point, did you see any of the damage being done in England?
Tony: No, not at that time. No.
Alannah: So off you went across the channel?
Tony: Yeah.
Alannah: You went across the channel into France?
Tony: France. I saw damage at France. Oh, yes. Uh, what's the name of that place, Bean? Anyways, it was just across the border, across the channel. Got off the board. On the left, it was a town called, I think it was Bean. I'm not sure though. I'm not sure. But it was well bombed and so on.
Alannah: So what does that look like for someone who's never seen that?
Tony: Oh boy. Wow. It was really something. It was really something. It was flat and pretty well flattened out. Yeah. That was my baptism of fire, I guess. But, uh, the stories go on and on as we go along.

Hugh: Actually, I don't remember any of the crew because I was new, probably about 20, 21, somewhere in there. And I spent the next two years in a prisoner-of-war camp. Oh, I guess I was about two days wandering around before the Germans caught up with me.
Alannah: By yourself?
Hugh: Yeah.
Alannah: You must have been terribly frightened.
Hugh: Not really. But, uh, somewhat.
Alannah: Did other people flying with you in that Halifax also survive the crash?
Hugh: One or two did.
Alannah: Did you ever see them again?
Hugh: No.
Alannah: So they did not end up with you in the same camps?
Hugh: No. No.
Alannah: And arriving at a prisoner-of-war camp, what was the process like?
Hugh: Oh, you just put in there and, uh, other prisoners-of-war looked after the internal camp procedures and stuff, but the Germans supervised everything.
Alannah: Where were you? Do you know which camp?
Hugh: Luft six.
Alannah: Luft six.
Hugh: Actually it was out in, uh, Lithuania. I think it was just in the edge there.
Alannah: Do you have any idea how many were in the prisoner-of-war camp?
Hugh: A couple of thousand maybe.
Alannah: Where did you sleep?
Hugh: They had, uh, made bunks up for us and that's where we slept. Not very comfortable, but uh.
Alannah: And what was the day in your life like in the camps?
Hugh: Not too, not too much going on.
Alannah: Were you expected to work?
Hugh: No. The air crew were not allowed out for that kind of things. They kept us there and, uh, entertained ourselves as best we could. Talked, played games a lot of the time and card games.
Alannah: And deep friendships formed? Did you have very close friends?
Hugh: Uh, I wouldn't say real close, but, uh, you generally got into a group from the time I started in the camp till we were marched out of there finally.
Alannah: How did you do physically?
Hugh: I, I, I managed fairly well. No problem. But you were aircrew. You, you had to be in good condition to start with.
Alannah: You were pretty fit going in?
Hugh: Yes.
Alannah: What was the food and the meals like?
Hugh: The German rations were very small.
Alannah: Like, would you just get soup and bread from the German meals?
Hugh: There would be a few veggies and a little meat, but not too much. Actually, the, the best part of we, we got, uh, the Red Cross supplied us with packages every month or two. Gave us enough to supplement the, what, what we got.
Alannah: And what would be in those Red Cross boxes?
Hugh: Oh, it'd be probably cookies and chocolate. Also clothing and all kinds of stuff that.
Alannah: Made life bearable?
Hugh: Yes.
Alannah: Yeah. Were you able to get mail? Did you get letters?
Hugh: Yes
Alannah: From home?
Hugh: Once every couple months, you may get a letter, which had been well-censored and blacked out.
Alannah: And were your parents and your friends back in Canada able to get mail from you?
Hugh: The odd time? Very odd.

Beverly: Behaviour, stand tall, be the example of what you would consider the niceties, the frankness, um, to keep up with the young children and maintaining the pride priority that they would need to keep on a strong, true, honest track. Maybe a quiet wish in their own mind to try and be as sensible as, uh, big brother Bev. Play their hands well. Do things that restore order, goodness and, uh, joy of, uh, work of friendship and of employment when the time came and that, that they would turn out to be the kind of person that would be wanted to be on their team and to be able to make their contribution to those who had gone before.

Joyce: I think most people, when they become a certain age, are glad to be, to get out on their own and do something for themselves. And, uh, when the war came along, it was just something to, to investigate about and go into it if you wanted. So I did.
Alannah: It sounds like maybe it helped give you confidence.
Joyce: Yes.
Alannah: And training.
Joyce: Yes.
Alannah: Were there times though when the war itself and news of the war seemed somewhat overwhelming?
Joyce: Oh, yes. It would be. There would be, you know, did that really happen, you know?
Alannah: And how did you get your news in those days about the war?
Joyce: Well, the radio. We would group together when we were at camp. Yes.
Alannah: When you were in camp? And, and what was that like? Where did you live and what, what were the living conditions like?
Joyce: We had bunk beds and, uh, the food was very acceptable and I like people and, and I really enjoyed it.
Alannah: And were you living in tents?
Joyce: Cabins, sort of, yeah.
Alannah: And how many girls to a cabin?
Joyce: Four.
Alannah: What was the best of it and what was the challenging part of it?
Joyce: The challenging part about it was like, you know, we're really at war, you know, and, and if we can help in any way, that made us feel a little bit better.

Alannah: When you look back and think of your war years, what are you most proud of?
Isobel: I guess having been in the war, been involved in it. I appreciate those years.
Alannah: Did many of your friends sign up in the same way? Your, your girlfriends from East York?
Isobel: No.
Alannah: No. You were unusual for your time, I think.
Isobel: I don't know.
Alannah: And to go into the air force, that too was unusual.
Isobel: Yes. Well, I appreciate that time.
Alannah: In some ways it's a different time, but in, in other ways, you know, there's a war in Ukraine right now.
Isobel: Yeah.
Alannah: And young people are fighting again and losing homes and bombs overhead.
Isobel: Mm-hmm.
Alannah: You witnessed that and yet you went on to build a great life.
Isobel: Yeah.
Alannah: And live a long, long life. What has helped you do that?
Isobel: I was just, uh, just fortunate that I had good, good enough health to sustain me.
Alannah: Do you think that war experience gave you extra resilience, changed you in any way like that?
Isobel: Oh, yes, I think so. You just go with the flow.
Alannah: I think that's very true. A lot of the veterans have said to me, they came home and they just wanted to be peaceful and happy.
Isobel: Yeah.
Alannah: They didn't worry about things that perhaps now my children and my generation worry about. They just got on with life.
Isobel: Yes. You have to have a good attitude.
Alannah: What does that mean to you?
Isobel: Everything. Well, looking at things in the right way and appreciating things.
Alannah: In the middle of the war years. Is there one thing that got you through it?
Isobel: I think God got me through it. It wasn't me.
Alannah: I want to mention something your daughter just said to me. She said, the hallmark of your life, the theme of your life is gratitude.
Isobel: Yeah. I have so much to be thankful for every day.
Alannah: Do you think that attitude has been part of why you are now 101?
Isobel: Probably.
Alannah: I think so.
Isobel: Never thought I'd reach 101.

Ida: The prisoners of war from Germany that were released, they let them come to my hospital. Some of them, when they, um, tried to parachute, they were, were burned or they managed to save them from dying, but they were so badly burned, they needed to have plastic surgery. One patient was so badly burned on his rear, his derrière, he had to lie on his stomach because he didn't want to be taking drugs that would make him have an addiction. It, it, uh, really intrigued me, that man, such that he didn't want to have an addiction and yet he wanted to get better. And he did. And I thought it was wonderful that I saw, and some of them, the faces were all full of scars. And they used to go around the hospital in gowns dressed for their meals. And do you know, some of the people wouldn't or they shunned them. They didn't like it and they felt, they felt terrible to think that people were treating them like that. But what the hospital did was let them wear their officer's uniforms because all of them who, where they were from sergeants right up to captains, everything in, uh, the military that was high. And when they did that, people had respect for them. What interested me was that I saw some of those get better, you know, and it was good that the best plastic surgeons they had, but I wasn't ever in the operating room for any of that.
Alannah: And who, who inspired you and who taught you to be good at this work, even though you?
Ida: Every doctor and nurse. They even let me go on their rounds with them , and I would, uh, listen and I learned much more than if I'd had been in a school, in nursing.
Alannah: Were there days where it was almost too much for you?
Ida: No. No. I never found it that way. I, I loved what I did.

Russ: I was put on an ammunition truck to take gasoline and ammunition to, well, we were just outside of Ortona, just in the real suburbs really. They set up an initial on there and we moved into slit trenches. The fighting in Ortona was over Christmas, and we were supposed to be there for three days. We wound up, well, we lived in the slit trench pretty much. We serviced the vehicle in the morning. And, uh, daylight wasn't as bad as nighttime, but, uh, nighttime, uh, we relied on the infantry to pick up any Germans that might be coming in. But, uh, Christmas day they brought some food up to us. We had a kitchen set up. Alannah: In the trench?
Russ: Well, they were out in the open when they were cooking. But , yeah, we just, you you went and picked up your meal, went back to eat it in a hole in the ground, you know. And uh, Christmas day they brought extra food up from the rear echelons and, uh, ran out, got Christmas dinner and ran back and ate it. We were within mortar range of the Germans. In the morning, we would go down to service the truck. Beside the truck, we had a, a can that we used to boil water in and make a cup of tea cuz the shelling was going on, but it was overhead and it was farther away. We went down one morning and, uh, our tin that we used to heat water in was gone. And we thought somebody had stolen it. But then we discovered that the whole lot of holes in the tarpaulin and the truck was, uh, pieces of shrapnel. A mortar had landed right on the can, I guess. And so we, uh, didn't get tea that morning, but, uh.
Alannah: Could have been a lot, lot worse?
Russ: Could have been, if it had fallen closer to where we were, it would've hit somebody because we were all in a big group in our slit trenches. But, uh.
Alannah: How did you, how did you stay secure and keep your spirits intact with that going on around you?
Russ: Well, you never thought about any injury. You couldn't begin to think, I may get killed, or I may get wounded, or I may have this or that happen. You would go crazy if you started. We did have some that they had to send home because they were, uh, mentally afraid of anything happening to them. And, uh, the mental case, you know, the, it's, there's been more of that now than what we had, I guess. But there was still, well, if you looked at the whole army, there would be thousands probably. I used to ask my brother, he got wounded, uh, in Holland. And uh, when I asked him about it, he said, well, I was the same as you. I couldn't, I couldn't begin to worry about what might happen. He got badly burned around his face, lost his eyebrows, and part of one ear with a burn. But, uh, the other, the other brother was in the medical corps, and he was in a, he served in a hospital in England. You couldn't, you couldn't think about it or you would go crazy.
Alannah: Mm-hmm.
Russ: You know, you, you just hoped that nothing would happen. And thankfully, touch wood, I was lucky.
Alannah: And all three brothers came home?
Russ: Yeah. Yeah. We all got home.

Howard: And we're in Yorkshire. Yorkshire is , I can't tell you how good it is. It's just been so wonderful and I.
Alannah: Why do you say that? Why? What was it about Yorkshire?
Howard: Uh, just the people, climate, uh, they made everything very nice for us guys, and we were new.
Alannah: And what was, what was life like for them at that time? Were they under fire at all? Were there rations?
Howard: Uh oh, they all had rations. Yeah. They, the war didn't get up that, that far though. That's one good thing about it. And this town of, uh, Helmsley, this sounds like England, doesn't it?
Alannah: Yes, it does.
Howard: Hel Helmsley, uh, had two pubs. Uh, one was for the senior officers, and one, they didn't actually say, this is for us and this is for you. You go down on, uh, Friday night and, uh, feel right at home.
Alannah: And what else did you see during your wartime career? Did you go into London?
Howard: Uh, London was out of bounds because of the bombing. Uh, but I did get in.
Alannah: You snuck in?
Howard: Yeah.
Alannah: And what did you see there as a young man? What did.
Howard: Oh, they, uh, the bombing, I don't know how the British stood it. You know, the, you'd hear them, the, uh, planes coming over and the bombs would start dropping and they just carried on. You know, it made me realize why London was out of bounds.
Alannah: And what kept you going for the time that you were there? What kept your spirits up?
Howard: Well, I think maybe the people there and, uh, letters from home. I always had good letters from home. I didn't even have a girlfriend at that time.
Alannah: So who was writing you?
Howard: My mother and my sister. They knew that I relied on, on their letters.
Alannah: Were you away over Christmas? Do you remember a Christmas overseas?
Howard: Oh yeah. Yes, definitely. Um, they tried to make it as homey as they could. Uh, I spent one Christmas up in Scotland, uh, with a family that I got to know up there. Your first, uh, leave over there was a, a paid furlough. I thought, well, I'm gonna take a nice long trip. So I chose Aberdeen. Oh boy. It was the right choice. When you got to Aberdeen, you, there was a, a service there that could take you in and arrange for your accommodation. Well, this was not just another home. This was on a farm outside of Aberdeen.
Alannah: Aw.
Howard: Oh God. Fresh air, fresh eggs, fresh everything. I really lucked out there. It was, wasn't just that, that time. Every leave I had, after I, I went up to Aberdeen.
Alannah: And to the same family?
Howard: The same family, yeah. Stoddart was their name, Stoddart. Never forget them.
Alannah: Did you keep in touch after the war?
Howard: Yeah. Oh, just for a short time. Yeah. Things got, oh, I don't know. Things changed from when I got home and I got a girlfriend.
Alannah: Life moved on.
Howard: Life moved on, yeah.

Don: Very disappointing that we didn't get overseas. Very disappointed, cause you, you figured, you enlisted to be part of the war, didn't get overseas. That was a big disappointment. Alannah: But what did that training and that chapter in your life, how did it influence your life later on?
Don: It brings you down to a level that you’re, you’re a number.
Alannah: Mm-hmm
Don: You can't be very cocky, you know. It brings you back to who you, who you are. You're just a, another human being and you are being taught discipline and, uh, to respect. So, uh, it was good in that respect, but it made, made you feel something, somebody. Or if you weren't sort of a, a good standing citizen, hopefully they made you turn out to be a good citizen. I figured that if I had stayed in Montreal, I would, uh, never have had the adventure had I stayed in Montreal. So I was pleased when I got into the air force and, uh, got transferred to different stations, met different people, and, uh, all in all, it was very good.

Jean: The night that we boarded the ship in Halifax, there were some tears and we had the officers, they were on board that night, and, uh, I thought, well, I’ll just crawl underneath the desk and they won't know I'm there, but you know, that didn't work. I crawled out of the desk and I was asked to do some singing, but I sang like a quacking duck. Oh boy. And, uh.
Oh, Johnny, oh Johnny
please tell me dear,
what makes me love you so.

Janet: Well, for one thing I like to sing and I'm a good singer. And for a while I took singing lessons just for my own enjoyment. The, the symphony orchestra had a choral group and, uh, so then I, I was accepted into it.
Alannah: And what is it about singing that you love so much?
Janet: Oh, I've been able to sing for, uh, all my life, I think.
Alannah: And what kind of music gives you joy?
Janet: Classical, Scottish. . I think music, period, I like. Yeah, yeah.
Amazing grace how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost, but now I'm found
Was blind but now I see.
Alannah: What a voice you have!
Janet:
Alannah: Oh my goodness. Do you sing when you're by yourself?
Janet: Yes, I do. When I go to bed at night, I usually sing to myself.
Alannah: Before you go to bed?
Janet: Yeah, before I go to sleep, I'll sometimes sing.
Happy days are here again
The skies above are clear again
Let us sing a song of cheer again
Happy days are here again.

Happy days are here again
Your cares and troubles are gone
There'll be no more from now on
From now on.

Happy days are here again.
Alannah: That was a post-war song, wasn't it?
Janet: Yeah. Yes. I sing that a lot after I go to bed at night. Yeah.